Survey Comments from the Tiger Mt. Key Project

The following comments are taken directly from the comment field of the survey regarding the keys.
Personally identifying information has been removed, [comments inserted], but otherwise, the comments are unedited.

• Close the road and force everyone to either hike or find another passion.  That should thin the herd!!!!
   
• Tiger Mt has become over run with paraglider "pilots" and students who are not adequately trained or proficient to fly this site, rendering it dangerous for hang gliding operations. Tiger Mt should not be used for any commercial flight instruction or operations.
   
• I believe the people who drive the road should bear the additional cost and not have the club be responsible for the shortfall.
   
• I've 2 feet so shall be using them for every visit to launch!
   
• I would still prefer for the key purchased to be a simple key to a simple padlock [ed: See question.28] There are far less expensive options for keeping track of who uses the road how often than an electronic gate! I'm also not clear on what the "financial objectives" [ed: See question 5] of NWPC are, and I am concerned that using Tiger Mt. road usage to meet those objectives may not be appropriate. If the "financial objectives" are shared objectives of both CBCC and NWPC, I would be less concerned.
   
• If the cost per trip is more than $10, or prepaid uses do not rollover to the following year, I probably won't bother buying a key.  At $10, 300 trips pays the estimated $3000 maintenance cost, and you would be hard pressed to find evidence of activity, let alone wear, after just 300 trips in a typical 4WD.  Anything more than $10 screams of a hidden agenda or inappropriate use of the money. [ed: See qeustion 21]
   
• I wouldn't mind paying for the key but the proposed per trip cost and the annual minimum seem pretty high for something which I might not even use at all. And Murdock's point about the the shuttle riders causing the most wear on the road is dead on, in my opinion. Also, What happens when the shuttle system finally (and inevitably) fails?
   
• Are there limited keys? Do I deprive someone else by getting one?
  [ed: At present (4/30/08), only 34 people said they wanted keys; DNR is targeting 75 or less]
   
• These numbers would triple if the shuttle went away. 
   
• I'm currently a H-2, but expect to get my H-3 sometime this year.  Would like to take at least one trip to Tiger this year, but as I'd be new to the site, it would have to be with others, so might not buy a key this year, but would definately be interested in the future.
   
• I guess now that the key system will be formal and in place, i'm interested in getting a key for the odd trip up... but for the most part, expect to use the shuttle or hike.
   
• I had a Key but it is now lost. I believe you have my deposit :-) I may be interested in another key, although I have not driven up in at least 9 years. Also, I was one of the 7 or 8 founding members of the NWPC and guess I could join again if needed.
   
• Walking to launch is free.  Walking to launch reduces the amount of traffic on DNR's road both before and after the cut.  If individual club members have a seriousl complaint about the cost of a key or the cost of the road invite them to walk with me.
   
• There are very few daily or regular trips by the vast majority of key holders.
   
• What is going to happen with those who currently have a key? Will I be reimbursed if I turn my key in to the NWPC?
  [ed: Yes. Turn in your key and permit number, and NWPC will refund your previous $50 depost of the old system]
   
• I think that making keyholders bear the burden of funding road maintenance is unfair, because they use the road very little relative to the shuttle. It would be a lot more fair to distribute this cost among all club members. However, that could be considered unfair to those who hike exclusively (I almost fall in that category myself). That's a harder problem. I would suggest that hikers either suck it up as being in the best interest of the community, or perhaps be required to sign an honor-system pledge not to use the road, in order to opt out of the fee.
  [ed: This will be factored into final pricing]
   
• I have had my present key so that when family was in town if there was an interest I could take them up.  The last couple of years I have not used it at all.  So will wait till this maintenance issue gets settled out to see if I might be interested in getting one again.  Do I still get my $50.00 deposit back on the Key???  [ed: yes.] I kind of feel as Murdock relayed most of the damage to the road is by the Shuttle and the DNR is using the NWPG Club and members to help cover their road cost.  We may just be stuck with it.  Since we now have commerical interest with our Paragliding site it complicates the issues.  Thanks to all who have been involved in trying to coming up with a resolution.  We could make it a hike only site and that would make for a more fit and healthy paragliding community no more smokers on the hill and we could start a sherpa service from the LZ for carrying up packs-- Just Kidding!
   
• I will probably go fly with others that have keys until I'm checked out and confortable with the site - I don't mind purchasing a ket to support the site - I have a bunch of other keys so why not!
   
• Im actually really confused about this.
   
• I'm not sure how much I'll be flying, but if I do I'll drive my HG up.
   
• My last 3 times on the road for reasons other than flying....  Mike and the shuttle are not available in the winter. In the 12 years the system has been in place, I don't think the number of people on the road has been a serious issue. There will ALWAYS be some people who complain about scaring their horses, or whatever. We usually know who the "culprit" is with the current system in place. I think it is all in the way we approach DNR. To say "do you want us to reduce the number of trips up the hill?" would be a question with only one obvious answer. "Do you as a government agency appreciate us being on the road, helping maintain it, helping stranded and injured bikers and hikers, clearing fallen trees? Would you prefer to take this on without our volunteer help, and keep the road open for emergency vehicles with state funds?"
  [ed: This is absolutely valid. NWPC does let DNR know of improvements we make (Gravel, cleanup, culverts, etc.) and we get "credit" for these efforts]
   
• Primary reason I use my key these days is to have my photographic equipment on launch for professional photography, and to get various media types up on their schedules.
   
• I've been flying tiger often since 1984.. I have had (and still have) key #[ed: removed].. I drive up with glider and hike up for retrieve.. My opinion (you requested it) Hang Glider pilots should not be pushed out of Tiger.. The cost per trip idea is not fair.. the constant up and down shuttle trips are the negative impact on the road.. Hang Gliders do 1 trip at a time.. The shuttle hauls tons of PG's up and down multiple times every day.. You guys need to pay.. Until your community overpopulated the site, there was no issue.. You did it, you take care of it.. End of my opinion..
   
• I am a key holder and a member of CBCC. My concern with unlimited keys [ed: N/A] and access is the potential for increased use of the road by paragliding and hang gliding schools. Tiger is an advanced site for experienced pilots only. I feel it is a dangerous site for tandems (both PG and HG). I strongly recommend all keys used by instructors/schools submit their business license #, insurance policy, student release of liability waivers and an agreement to confirm all school income is reported to the IRS.
   
• Just filling this out so I can get a key
   
• I have had a key for 8 years now and don't use it much. Being a mechanic, I like having a key in case the shuttle breaks down and Mike needs help.
   
• Thanks for your hard work and thoughtful consideration. Let me know if I can help support this effort in any way. 
   
• Have existing key.  I currently have an existing key to the gate. Do we get any refund for the deposit on these? [ed: yes]
   
• For XC pilots, the key access allows flexibility when to be at launch when conditions are ripe.  Heading to Tiger, I often stare at the sky to determine if it's feasible to park at the LZ or do I need to head to launch immediately.  My best XC flights have been when I had driven up in the 'nick of time'.
   
• Can "commercial operators" have a key and access the road for non-commercial purposes without having to meet all the requirements for commercial operators? 
  [ed: see DNR LUL FAQ].
   
• I don't agree with the way the cost of this is being done, but I am thankful to the BOD for doing their best. I still have an original key.
   
• Will there be another meeting about this issue so we will know when and where to purchase the key? Or maybe a post to the CBCC list as well as the NWPC list.  Thanks!
  [ed: CBCC, NWPC, and DRN (Heather Cole) will all sit down together prior to finalization]
   
• I live in Issaquah and Tiger is my regular hang gliding flying site.  I frequently arrange to have others meet me in the LZ parking lot and we carpool up in my rig.  I also take as many paragliders as pilots want, to ease congestion on the shuttle, or for those who want to hike up but don't want to carry the weight all that way.  In past years, I have logged as many as 43 flights off Tiger, but I anticipate a lower number this year due to other commitments.
   
• I have been trying for years to get a key.  Please, please, please put me down for one and tell me what I have to do to get one.